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@  Josh211 : (12 October 2017 - 10:56 PM)

Philly has a pretty good line.

@  Josh211 : (12 October 2017 - 10:46 PM)

Game, set, match. Philly held serve...

@  panfanman : (12 October 2017 - 10:46 PM)

That lose was on Cam

@  SuperCam : (12 October 2017 - 10:45 PM)

Too many turnovers tonight guys. Gotta take care of that rock fellas.

@  SuperCam : (12 October 2017 - 10:45 PM)

Darn.

@  panfanman : (12 October 2017 - 10:38 PM)

We got this. Come on Cam don't fudge it up.

@  SuperCam : (12 October 2017 - 10:38 PM)

Wow.

@  SuperCam : (12 October 2017 - 10:37 PM)

Can't believe we still have a shot.

@  panfanman : (12 October 2017 - 10:37 PM)

We need CMC to step up with a punt return

@  panfanman : (12 October 2017 - 10:36 PM)

3 and out d. Come on

@  panfanman : (12 October 2017 - 10:35 PM)

Those last 3 plays. Smh

@  panfanman : (12 October 2017 - 10:33 PM)

Terrible play calling with so much time left

@  SuperCam : (12 October 2017 - 10:33 PM)

Not sure why he feels like he has to go for it all on each throw.

@  panfanman : (12 October 2017 - 10:33 PM)

Three passes in a row going for way too much. 😟

@  SuperCam : (12 October 2017 - 10:32 PM)

Horrible. Just horrible.

@  SuperCam : (12 October 2017 - 10:32 PM)

Darn it. Stop trying to go for it all. Pick up the first down.

@  panfanman : (12 October 2017 - 10:32 PM)

Why the fart are they going for it all!!!

@  SuperCam : (12 October 2017 - 10:31 PM)

Bad pass there Cam.

@  SuperCam : (12 October 2017 - 10:30 PM)

KEEP POUNDING!

@  SuperCam : (12 October 2017 - 10:30 PM)

Your time to shine now Cam.


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Panthers vs. Texans--- HOT takes..


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#1 Hobbit99

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 04:13 PM

I watched the game on TV last night and recorded it, so I watched it again.... Here are some of my thoughts after thinking it over.

 

Lots of interesting stuff on the field last night. No matter what you call it.... "Hot Takes'", "Surprises", "Impressions", or "Head Scratchers", there were a lot of them. I sort of divided these up into categories, although many of them could be in several.

 

POG (Player of the game...)

I am going to give this to Deshaun Watson. Yes, I know he was not up against our first team, but that dude has game. My first impression: He reminds me of Cam in his first year. He seems pretty fearless, and is not afraid to take off with the ball. He's quick (and fast..). In my opinion he was better than Savage (in most ways...). He throws a nice ball and is accurate. Threaded it into some tight places against pretty good coverage. He will probably be the starter for Houston... if not week one, then shortly thereafter.  On the minus side, he seems to have a tendency to run out of the pocket too quickly.... I don't know, maybe its just me. The worst thing is his inability (apparently..) to move strongly to his left. Every "play" he made was to the right, his strong side. He ran numerous bootlegs and our D couldn't really stop him from going that way....even though we SHOULD have seen what was going on. He'll learn though.  If he stays healthy, he will be a good one.

 

QB play (in general..)

Other than Watson, I thought the Texans QB play was pretty pedestrian. Not much to see or talk about, although Savage did manage to move the ball pretty well on one drive after our 1s on defense were subbed out.

OTOH, the Panthers QBs were ALL pretty effective. Anderson was only in for a few series, and one long drive (part of the first quarter..). He looked pretty sharp like we have come to expect of him. I'm not sure that he is our best backup though......... Webb continues to amaze me. He plays like his ass is on fire...all the time. It's not all perfect, but he never has a drop in enthusiasm and NEVER quits on a play. We don't think of him as an "arm", but the dude can throw. Webb played the most last night and engineered two TD drives both completed with TD passes to Byrd. The one interception, was either a mis-read, or a bad route. He had one receiver (Byrd I think...) underneath the ball and one closing from the right. The ball was in the end zone which leads me to believe that one of the receivers was supposed to be there too, OR it might have been just an overthrow (which is more likely..). Every time we get to talking about QBs, the talk always turns to dumping Webb. I'm no longer on the fence about this, IMO Webb stays. He's just too good...... Gilbert looked pretty sharp too. Actually, I was almost as impressed with him as the other two. Good arm... good velocity... good accuracy. Throws a nice ball.!! He's young, and has to develop but sure looks like he has a future... either here or somewhere else.

 

WR play (in general...)

Strong and Anderson stood out for the Texans. These guys are second teamers (or less..). Strong looked pretty good and Anderson caught four or five passes for a lot of yardage. Not a bad display for backups. Neither Hopkins or Fuller had anything to talk about. One of Anderson's catches was called back (penalty..) because he stepped out of bounds before catching the ball. Big break for us...

KB looked pretty sharp. He has always been a big guy, but he looked pretty much in game shape last night. The TD catch speaks for itself. The one other play that deserves mention is a catch on the left side where Kevin Johnson was trying to defend. Johnson hit Benjamin and just sort of bounced off. To his credit he got up and tried again with even less success. KB reached out, stiff arm, and then just threw him down and away..... like maybe saying "who are you, pissant... chew on this for awhile..". KB then moved on up the sideline powering along until stopped by Watt (I think..). Overall, exactly what he needed to do for this first game. Byrd, got the game ball as well he should have. Two nice catches for TDs behind the defenders. Speed makes a difference. Clay showed his speed too, especially on the WR reverse. That boy can motate..... Duke was sort of an enigma. Two early drops (one almost a fumble..) caused me to wonder. But then he settled down and showed HIS speed and his ability to catch and make plays. Overall, a nice recovery, but he will HAVE to stop the up and down play. Bersin was his normal self (that means no fear, and lots of smarts...) until he was taken out by a defender. Knee injury.??? ( I understand now it was a thigh injury..) Have to wait and see what happens here....

INTERESTING FACT: .... We thought we had a bunch of WRs on the roster (and we do..)... The Texans have twelve (12) listed on their depth chart.!!! Don't know how many on the roster.!!

 

RB play (in general...)

Texans most talked about rookie, D'onte Foreman, showed some promise with some power. Not too much in the way of highlight reel stuff except the one 41 yard run up the sideline (which is enough, really...) against our backups....not bad though. While Foreman led the Texans in yards due to the one big gainer, I think the real threat on the ground was Alfred Blue. He gashed the Panthers D (2s, 3s, and --) several times for good yardage and a TD. He looked strong and ran well. Neither of these guys would have been nearly as effective against our 1s (IMHO...).

The Panther running game looked good (in general..). I could go on and on here about McC and others but I won't. Just a couple of notes. McCaffrey showed off why he was our #1 pick. Tremendous acceleration. One good run from scrimmage was one errant leg trip by a friendly from turning into a highlight reel play. He knew it and we all could see it too. He showed also that he definitely CAN run between the tackles. I'm not certain how many carries he had, but they were all sort of "up the gut". The one thing that I really noticed was his ability to make something out of nothing. Although he was hit several times at or behind the line, he NEVER lost a yard. Every play was "yards positive..". We only tried to throw to him one time, a screen pass, but it didn't develop when the ball was batted down. When he gets moving out of the backfield into downfield routes, defenses better watch out. Stew ran a few plays and looked good. Simmons ran tough and was effective. He was the top ground gainer and had the most carries. In addition, Simmons also caught a pass out of the backfield for a few yards. Fozzy and CAP both ran some plays. Both of them had one nice run (CAP=20 yd; Foz=11 yd...). After those two runs there was little to talk about. Foz had one more carry and lost yardage, and CAP carried five more times and gained two more yards. Webb carried three times and averaged 7.0 per carry; and of course there was the Clay WR reverse that netted 18 yds...

 

O-Line play--Panthers

A very workmanlike effort. The O-line did extremely well overall. Only one sack (I think..??) and good pass pro. Run blocking was up and down. The "star" of the O-Line - IMO - was Amini Silatolu. He came in and played like he belonged. It wasn't perfect, but it was SOLID. Really a pleasant surprise considering how little he has played the past two or three years and how foreign the tackle spot is to him. Moton proved he could handle the assignment. He has some learning to go yet, but he is going to be a good one.!!  The guards played well, if not stand-out performances. Center duties were handled well with Kalil sitting this one out. No issues with snaps or fumbles here. I think the center position is gold.

TE play--Panthers

Olsen... Well, his normal self. Terrific. One of the best in the league. Other than Olsen though, the TE group were pretty much "under the radar". I think Manhertz caught a pass.... Now, having said that, the blocking was not bad. Referring back to the O-line as well, the TEs held up their end of the bargain.

 

D-Line--Panthers

This is all about KK right.?? Well, not really.!! I'm including the DEs here. So okay, KK played his usual "Immoveable object" routine AND the "irresistible force" routine as well. It's hard to complain about this guy...so I won't.!! KK gets his first sack of the year and was constantly disruptive while he was in the game.The Panthers played a lot of DEs in this game as was expected. CJ and Peppers were both sitting out. Still we played at least eight DEs in this game including Addison, Horton, Cox, Hall, Webster, Crume, Moore, and Obada.  And maybe more..?? Most of the play was workmanlike as befitted their place on the depth chart. Nothing much to write home about... Oh, Obada had a sack as well as KK. After the 1s left the game and players started rotating in the defense lost some of it's luster. A little disappointing actually.

 

LB play--Panthers

The 1s played two series I think. Very effective. Two straight three and outs. Luke showed off a little going left and knifing into the backfield for a stop. Everything was as expected while these guys were in the game. Solid play. Good coverage underneath. Good gap discipline. Good tackling. Didn't play long though....... The 2s and 3s were a little disappointing to me, although Cash and Mayo were both quite effective. Jared Norris played well too with eight tackles (I think..??). Quite a few fails to get off the field even when holding the Texans to 3rd and long. Allowed far too many 3rd down conversions early in the game. As the game progressed the 3rd down stuff got a little better, so overall, it wasn't too bad. 3rd and long however was NOT good.!! Also failed to stop Blue... although he is a good back and hard to deal with because of his shifty skills. Overall, the LB play was good, although the guys with less experience will definitely benefit by playing alongside the veterans. 

 

DB play--Panthers

Well, the Safeties and CBs got a workout, that's for certain. Initially, I thought our early coverages were pretty good. Seemed to be in the right place and good instincts and skills. We played zone almost the entire game (maybe the whole game...??), I can't remember any man coverages. So, very little or NO press coverage from the line of scrimmage. This allows the receivers (and the backs as well..) to run free from the snap. So, we saw quite a bit of short, underneath stuff that was completed. In fact, the Texans had more total yards than we did. More rushing AND more passing. Just shows that big yardage does not necessarily guarantee a victory.... although I much prefer to be on the plus side of that statistic.!! No TDs allowed by the DBs through the air. Of interest to me were several players. I'll just name them and short comment. No need to ramble on here. Dezmen Southward, Cole Luke, Colin Jones, LJ McCray, and Zack Sanchez were all sort of notable for their involvement in the game. All of them had at least four tackles with Southward leading the charge with six and Cole Luke with five. LJ McCray looked aggressive as did Colin Jones especially close to the line of scrimmage. LJ McCray was credited with 1/2 of a sack. Interestingly, Damien Parms, playing behind McCray and Adams on the depth chart also had a sack. Most of Southward and Lukes tackles were after catches.... which is good, don't get me wrong. But it would have been so much better if there had been fewer catches.!! Southward also recovered the lone fumble that was forced by "someone". There is apparently some discussion about who actually caused the fumble. Not to me, but...???

 

ST play--Panthers

The coverage was good. Kept everything contained pretty well. No major errors that I could see. JJ Jansen was perfect...as usual. The kicking competition was NOT solved in this game. Gano was longer off of the tee, but missed his first FG attempt at 5o+ yds. He later made one at 45 (or close to that..). Butker attempted one FG and made it at 50+ yds. His kickoffs were a little shorter. All PATs were successful. Punters had a decent day too. Actually I am giving the nod here to Palardy. He out kicked Lee by quite a bit. Lee had two punts that averaged 36 yds with a long of 40 and one inside the 20 yd line. Palardy had two punts also that averaged 46.5 yds with a long of 51 and both of them were inside the 20 yd line. So advantage=Palardy.

PR/KR stuff was spread out as most of us thought it would be. Punt returns were handled by Byrd (2), Duke (2), and Clay (1). Byrd's returns averaged 9.5 yds with a long of 13. Duke averaged 3.5 yds with a long of 6. Clay had one return for 20 yds.  Kick offs were handled by Jalen Simmons and Byrd. Simmons was 24 yds, and Byrd was 22 yds. I thought Clay's return was really nice. PRs are tough because there is typically very little time to plan your first move. You have to be quick and you have to be right.!! I can't wait to see MCCaffrey return some kicks. I think that guy will be the bomb...

 

Team Stuff--Panthers

Just gonna lump all of this together. Some of this is good and some not so much so. So, here we go... We allowed two TDs but NONE through the air. We scored three TDs ALL through the air. We allowed only one sack. We got FIVE sacks in return. The sacks went to 6 different players with Jeremy Cash and LJ MCCray splitting one. The other four went to Bigger, Parms, Obada, and KK. We had no fumbles, but got one from the Texans. So the turn over differential stays at zero (0). We threw 27 times with 15 completions and 1 interception, averaging 9.3 yds per completion. The Texans threw 45 times with 28 completions and no interceptions, averaging 6.4 yds per catch. So it's obvious we are still not throwing underneath as much as we probably should be. The rest of this isn't very pretty.... We lose the 1st down battle 19 vs. 23. We lose total yds 388 vs. 410. We lose rushing yds 146 vs. 153. We lose passing yds 242 vs. 257. AND we lose Time of Possession 26:30 vs. 33:30.

 

But we win the game. Why..??  Because we made the plays when we had to. AND and one more thing... the Texans had their butts handed to them on penalties.  :referee:  We played a pretty clean game in comparison.

 

Well, that's it from here.... :thank_you2: You can disagree with my conclusions of course, but the numbers are pretty much right.....



#2 firstchance

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:11 PM

Going to respectfully disagree on a few of your selections. First POG in my opinion had to be Byrd, he caught everything close to him, I'm including the one that might have hit the ground and the interception was clearly Webb fault, plus he had two two touchdowns and plus he is a Panther...not to mention a nice punt return.

 

Overall I did think that Watson had a decent game but about 50 yards came during our prevent at the end of the second half which would have left him under 10 yds per completion along with a 57% completion rate.I actual thought Joe played just as well if not better, as it was clear that their 2nd teamers were much much better than ours and I hope we can get that corrected.

 

I did think that TE Dickison made a couple nice blocks including the one for CMC that allowed his 12 yard run...I have to give credit where due.

 

I also thought that Amini looked really really good verses the run but I thought he was close to awful in pass pro, reminded me of an even worse Byron Bell, but there is time to approve. And again, just my personal opinion.

 

Kicking and punting will get a lot of attention over the next 3 weeks, I actually though Lee had bad holds on Gano..just a slight lean toward his body and the kicker will get hook much like a golf. I'm not so sure on the short kicks that they were not ordered that way.

 

Cash showed me nothing but a penalty on 3rd down giving them a 1st down and a missed tackle. Mayo was okay but I think Norris showed out as did Bigger when he was in the game and along with his special teams play.

 

 

Lastly i will throw out a little love to Shula, he had a pretty good vanilla game plan and had people in the right spots at the right time.

 

Otherwise you and i saw through the same brand of classes.


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#3 45catfan

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:33 PM

I agree with about everything but the POG.  I'm going with firstchance on that one..it had to be Byrd.   The INT was all on Webb (one mistake in an otherwise stellar game).  It appeared to be a spot throw and Byrd was still running his route.  If Webb held a second more, it would have been a better play...although the safety still was sitting on his spot.  If you look to the right hand side of the field, a Panthers' player, Frazier I think ...was all alone and would have waltzed into the end zone.


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#4 Hobbit99

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 10:26 PM

Going to respectfully disagree on a few of your selections. First POG in my opinion had to be Byrd, he caught everything close to him, I'm including the one that might have hit the ground and the interception was clearly Webb fault, plus he had two two touchdowns and plus he is a Panther...not to mention a nice punt return. Agree that Byrd was definitely the PANTHERS POG. I just think that Watson was the prime mover behind their offense ... AND lets face it, they out played us on offense in all facets of the game. You don't lead all of the offensive stat lines AND time of possession for no reason. That reason was Watson... IMO.

 

Overall I did think that Watson had a decent game but about 50 yards came during our prevent at the end of the second half which would have left him under 10 per completion along with a 57% completion rate.I actual thought Joe played just as well if not better as it was clear that their 2nd teamers were much much better than ours and I hope we can get that correct. Joe definitely played extremely well. I have always thought he was under-respected. I love his fire and enthusiasm and his complete lack of quit. But you can't argue with results, and the results favor Watson. Other than the final score, we were outplayed on the offensive side of the ball. Their penalties and the very timely plays we made kept us in the game and indeed allowed us to win. 2nd teamers were an interesting combination. some were good, some not so much so. I think our 2s and 3s on defense just flogged the dog (for the most part..). Offensively, I don't think it was quite that bad....

 

I did thin that TE Dickison made a couple nice blocks including the one for CMC that allow his 12 yard run...I have to give credit where do. Yep... but it was Dickson's flailing leg that caused McC to trip when he broke through. Without that trip, he was gone into high gear... and probably for a long time. Of course that's not Dickson's fault.

 

I also thought that Amini looked really really good verses the run but I thought he was close to awful in pass pro, reminded me of an even worse Byron Bell, but there is time to approve. And again, just my personal opinion. ​Well, always multiple ways to look at it. My major consideration was the pressure that they were NOT able to get on our QBs. ONE sack, and it came up the middle (I think..??). Anderson, Webb, and Gilbert all had plenty of time to get their throws off and none of them scrambled or rolled out like Watson did.

 

Kicking and punting will get a lot of attention over the next 3 weeks, I actually though Lee had bad holds on Gano..just a slight lean toward his body and the kicker will get hook much like a golf. I'm not so sure on the short kicks that they were not ordered that way. Hmm...really?? I didn't notice anything weird in the holds. Gano always wants his ball tilted some. I've noticed that from day one. Actually, I believe that all kickers want that tilt to some degree. It allows them to get more foot on the ball in a more natural way.... I think...!!

 

Cash showed me nothing but a penalty on 3rd down giving them a 1st down and a missed tackle. Mayo was okay but I think Norris showed out as big Bigger when he was in the game and along with his special teams play. Cash got into their backfield several times...actually got half a sack with McCray. Plainly disruptive. Not like Luke, but not bad. Norris was indeed the big dog, especially on tackling. He played very well. Bigger came to play too. I'm still not sold on him, but as you said, there is still time.

 

Lastly i will throw out a little love to Shula, he had a pretty good vanilla game plan and had people in the right spots at the right time. Agreed.... I think Shula called a good game considering he didn't want to expose all of the secrets too early. No mixups and good play calls for the most part. A little surprised that he didn't throw underneath to McC at least once or twice.

 

Otherwise you and i saw through the same brand of classes... Yeah, but I wish they were more rose colored.!!


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#5 Hobbit99

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 10:54 PM

I agree with about everything but the POG.  I'm going with firstchance on that one..it had to be Byrd.   The INT was all on Webb (one mistake in an otherwise stellar game).  It appeared to be a spot throw and Byrd was still running his route.  If Webb held a second more, it would have been a better play...although the safety still was sitting on his spot.  If you look to the right hand side of the field, a Panthers' player, Frazier I think ...was all alone and would have waltzed into the end zone.

 

 

Yep.. pretty sure that INT throw was not so much a bad throw as an error in judgement with respect to receiver speed and positioning. And yes, the receiver coming down the right side was also a potential target as I mentioned in the original post. Glad you caught that too.!!

 

As far as the POG goes, I knew that would be a bone of contention around here. But it is what I think. As I pointed out to First, Byrd was definitely the PANTHERS POG. It's just that we were beaten in ALL offensive categories and time of possession. That doesn't happen by accident. It happened because of Watson.!!



#6 Good_Riddance

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 05:58 AM

Yeah but Watson wasn't doing that against our starters.
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#7 PantherFan007

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 07:10 AM

Thanks for the extended analysis, Hobbit.  Definitely food for thought.


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#8 Hobbit99

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:32 AM

Yeah but Watson wasn't doing that against our starters.

 

 

Yes... AGREED. As I mentioned, he was working against our 2s and 3s (for the most part..). But then, so were we..!! Webb and Gilbert both were working against their 2s and 3s as well. So, it all comes out in the wash... right..??

 

Anyway, I'm pleased in the outcome. Hopefully, we have "Learned How to Win...".   :yahoo:



#9 Hobbit99

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:34 AM

Thanks for the extended analysis, Hobbit.  Definitely food for thought.

 

Thanks... :)

I had the game on DVR so I thought I would go back over it.. When you do that you "see" things a little differently.!!  Well, at least I do..!!



#10 koda

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 11:25 AM

I hadn't had the chance to watch the game for a 2nd time and a lot always looks different the 2nd time.

 

 I think Teddy Williams will make good backup *finally* but he's the only outside CB I feel comfortable with for backup. I been impressed with Jeff Richards at camp; not so much in the game.

 I'm not really impressed with the tackling ability of Sanchez and Dezmen. LJ McCray plays physical and imo he could make a great SS with experience and time.

 

 I thought Mayo done pretty good. I'm concerned about outside LB depth. Norris done fair but imo he's making tackles to far down the line; I think his instincts are a little slow but hopefully he'll get sharper.

 I had high hopes for Cash after he's got his weight up but not so much now. I just feel if we had to go with Cash & Norris in a regular season game against starters they'd be making a lot of RB tackles 10 yards down field.

 

  I agree Byrd was POG. Clay didn't do as much but I think he could've. Byrd knows our system a little better but I see a lot of similarity in the two.

  QB Watson has an argument for POG since it was his first nfl game ever but I have to give it to our guy!!

 

Couple things I've seen at training camp: It could just be the days I been there but I've never seen them practice ST as much as this year. I think STs will be sharp come regular season.

 One thing I seen em do a lot on offense is line up KB and Func wide (one on each side). After throwing to both it seems to open things up underneath and they throw to either the RB, TE or slot guy.

 A lot of attention is on Cmac; one day they lined him up in the slot and Stew rolled out to the opposite side for a swing pass; nobody was within 15 yards of Stew. Cmac is gonna make em all better!


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#11 Josh211

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 09:29 PM

Nice hobbit n other long posters. I love reading!
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#12 Hobbit99

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 02:15 AM

Nice hobbit n other long posters. I love reading!

 

 

Thanks...  :)






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