Jump to content


Toggle shoutbox Shoutbox Open the Shoutbox in a popup

@  Josh211 : (04 February 2018 - 10:00 PM)

5 pt game.

@  Josh211 : (04 February 2018 - 10:00 PM)

Good call.

@  Josh211 : (04 February 2018 - 09:59 PM)

If that's not a catch, the fix is in. He was a runner.

@  Stirs : (04 February 2018 - 09:22 PM)

Well, that Eli commercial makes me want to go take a bath

@  Stirs : (04 February 2018 - 09:21 PM)

35-33 Eagles?

@  Stirs : (04 February 2018 - 09:19 PM)

955 yds and not even to the 4th qtr yet, haha

@  Stirs : (04 February 2018 - 09:19 PM)

Agholar good at following blocks

@  Josh211 : (04 February 2018 - 09:14 PM)

Close to it!

@  Stirs : (04 February 2018 - 09:11 PM)

Gonna be over 1000 yds of offense by the time this one is over. haha

@  Stirs : (04 February 2018 - 09:07 PM)

Foles doing an exceptional job for a backup

@  Josh211 : (04 February 2018 - 09:00 PM)

Almost a TD. Hope it holds up.

@  Josh211 : (04 February 2018 - 08:47 PM)

Dang it...

@  Josh211 : (04 February 2018 - 08:34 PM)

Keep the clamps on Phi!

@  Josh211 : (04 February 2018 - 08:33 PM)

Good half time show.

@  Josh211 : (04 February 2018 - 08:09 PM)

Gotta step up in the pass game!

@  Josh211 : (04 February 2018 - 08:07 PM)

If only first... I think he does, run wise.

@  Josh211 : (04 February 2018 - 08:05 PM)

Great playcall!

@  firstchance : (04 February 2018 - 08:02 PM)

Lordy, I wish Cam understood the game as much as Foles does.

@  Josh211 : (04 February 2018 - 07:10 PM)

I'll be here.

@  Josh211 : (04 February 2018 - 07:04 PM)

It's the SB! N goodish commercials.


Photo

In Your Humble Opinion - Who to Keep?


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 PantherFan007

PantherFan007

    Owner/Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 30,632 posts
  • LocationMount Holly, North Carolina

Posted 11 February 2018 - 09:21 AM

We have some very, very important decisions to make this offseason which will affect the team in different, although similarly impacting ways.

 

Undrafted Guard Andrew Norwell, now a Pro-Bowler and arguably one of the League's best Offensive Linemen, is an Unrestricted Free Agent.

 

First round pick Defensive Tackle Star Lotulolei is also an Unrestricted Free Agent.

 

Both are integral components of their respective lines.

 

There is virtually no way, cap-wise, that we can keep both.  Or, if we did, we would have nothing left to keep anyone else. 

 

So, pray tell, who do we keep? 

 

Or, do we let both of them go?

 

 

From his end of season interview, it sounds as if Star is ready and willing to move on with another team.

 

Norwell, on the other hand, seems like he has adopted the Panthers as his second family, put down roots in Charlotte, and seems to appreciate the team on a different level due to them giving him the chance he thought would never happen.

 

 

That all aside, and in my opinion only, of the two, I would say keep Norwell.  We can't afford to lose anyone from the O-Line, particularly as good as he as been, and we have players on Defense who can fill any gap (no pun intended) that Star leaves if we cannot sign him.

 

What are your opinions, and what should we do on this dilemma?

 

 



#2 Abert43

Abert43

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationWaxhaw

Posted 11 February 2018 - 12:36 PM

I actually found a way to keep both in another thread on here, but if I had to choose I would keep Norwell and draft DL early 1/2nd round.


  • PantherFan007 likes this

#3 45catfan

45catfan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,061 posts
  • LocationCarolina

Posted 11 February 2018 - 01:02 PM

I was initially opting for keeping Norwell and letting Star walk, now I'm for both walking.  Interior linemen are easier to replace than skill positions, plain and simple.  As much as I like Norwell, I can't see us mortgaging the future for a guard.  We have to get out from under Matt Kalil's monstrosity of a contract before dumping more money into the OL.



#4 45catfan

45catfan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,061 posts
  • LocationCarolina

Posted 11 February 2018 - 01:08 PM

In case you are wondering, I have seen one guy opine that Norwell could command north of $12 million a year.  That's almost all the cap space we have now.  It makes no sense financially.  The only chance we have in keeping Norwell is if he spurns higher offers in favor of the ole 'home town discount'.  Will he?  Would you turn away two, three or four million dollars a year to stay put?  That's a hard question to answer,



#5 Stirs

Stirs

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 297 posts
  • LocationWestern NC

Posted 11 February 2018 - 02:22 PM

We have a lot of money tied up on both lines already

 

We will probably lose both unless R Kalil retires saving us a ton of dough.  Course he has preemptively struck with the "last season" thing, so I think we are stuck.

 

Both gone in my opinion



#6 45catfan

45catfan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,061 posts
  • LocationCarolina

Posted 11 February 2018 - 02:49 PM

Spotrac calculates our 2018 cap space at just over $15 million right now.  So if Norwell's market is indeed in the $12 million a year range, we are going to ink him leaving million $3 million left on the table?  That takes any other FA of note off the table including our own folks such as Gano OR Peppers.  Star?  Sheesh, you can totally forget about him.

 

Sorry, Norwell doesn't make sense...not at those figures. Since it's a weak year for FA guards, that is working against us as well, inflating Andrew's market value.



#7 Good_Riddance

Good_Riddance

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,901 posts
  • LocationIndiana

Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:10 AM

We are already stuck with Matt Kalil's contract for a bit. Ryan Kalil is already announcing his retirement after this season. What you do is get him to restructure and save roughly 3 million. If he refuses to restructure to get to that point, you cut him and save 6.8 million and let Larsen be the team's starting center.

 

Then you ask Stewart to restructure and save another 2 million. If you don't, then you cut him and save 3.7 million. You get Charles Johnson to restructure or cut his fanny. Save either 1.5 keeping him or 3 by cutting him.

 

All these guys are talking about retiring after this year. If they all want one last rodeo, then ask them to restructure. Seriously, Ryan Kalil riding into the sunset is costing us 9.6 million dollars. At least his younger brother only counts 2 million less and at least he played the entire season. Where is Ryan Kalil gonna play if we don't ask him to restructure and save us 4 million dollars? Worst case scenario he buys the team an extra 6.7.

 

You gotta keep Norwell. You try and keep Norwell for a deal similar to Turner's if he walks he walks. The cohesion of the offensive line helped the team bounce back from our down year where everyone was injured. The entire O-line talks about Norwell being the soul of the line.

 

Star acted like he couldn't care less if he came back when asked on locker clean-out day. That doesn't surprise me, he's played uninspired football for the past two seasons. Let him walk. Norwell plays hard and has earned his keep around here. He was the top-rated guard according to PFF. Daryl Williams was ranked towards the top among tackles. Let Matt Kalil get another offseason removed from his injury and in our system. He'll improve from last year. 

 

Gotta keep Norwell. We'll come up with the cap space. 

 

Also, I just noticed we save 2.1 million by cutting Shepard. What did that guy even do last year to command the 14th highest paycheck on the team? He's gone.



#8 Good_Riddance

Good_Riddance

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,901 posts
  • LocationIndiana

Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:26 AM

We have a lot of money tied up on both lines already

 

 

This is the recipe for success in the NFL within reason. Outside of QB, you are going to be most successful by being dominant on the lines. Gettleman knew that from his time with the Giants.

 

Look at what happened to the Seahawks when they started spending more money on their linebackers, safeties and corners than their offensive line. Their O-line is atrocious. How did trading Max Unger for Jimmy Graham work out for them?

 

Look at how the Steelers got abused by the Jaguars because most of their money is tied up in one wide receiver and one running back.

 

Long term consistent success in the NFL comes through having strong lines on both sides of the ball. If we are choosing between keeping two guys who are interior linemen. You pay the guy who has become an All-pro at his craft.



#9 Stirs

Stirs

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 297 posts
  • LocationWestern NC

Posted 12 February 2018 - 06:28 PM

Pretty bad that the 2 Olinemen that played the best for the Panthers, were by far, the cheapest


  • Good_Riddance likes this

#10 Good_Riddance

Good_Riddance

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,901 posts
  • LocationIndiana

Posted 12 February 2018 - 07:36 PM

Pretty bad that the 2 Olinemen that played the best for the Panthers, were by far, the cheapest


True, but they were also the ones still on their rookie deals.

#11 Stirs

Stirs

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 297 posts
  • LocationWestern NC

Posted 12 February 2018 - 08:44 PM

Yep, and that is coming to an end, that was my point



#12 Good_Riddance

Good_Riddance

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,901 posts
  • LocationIndiana

Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:35 AM

Yep, and that is coming to an end, that was my point

 

LOL, I'm not for sure what that has to do with whether or not we should pay them. I thought your original point was that we shouldn't have too much money tied up in the offensive line.

 

Guys start off making less money as rookies. Then, based on their play, they either play well enough to get raises or not. Norwell played well enough to earn a raise. Star, imo, didn't. So back to the original premise of who to keep between the two. I would say Norwell is the guy you keep. The year of our Super Bowl run we had a healthy O-line that was talented and didn't get injured. Last season our O-line got injured and had little cohesion and we dropped a bunch of close games and had a losing record. This past season, our O-line was mostly healthy (exception of Ryan Kalil so he's absolutely not worth the 9 million we are paying him in his final year with the team) and had some consistency and we won a bunch of close games instead of losing them.

 

Keep the O-line in tact. If it means cutting Ryan Kalil if he refuses to take a 50% pay cut then do it. Norwell is an all-pro guard and someone who has his best years ahead of him. Those are the types of guys you keep and if they played well enough to earn a decent contract, you fork up the cash.



#13 Hobbit99

Hobbit99

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 967 posts
  • LocationThe Old North State

Posted 13 February 2018 - 02:54 PM

Here's what I think...not necessarily what I WANT, but what I think.

 

We keep Norwell... I think he wants to stay here and will be willing to negotiate a little. 

 

We let Star walk... For him its all about the money. And as Good mentioned, he has played at a totally "uninspired" level the last two years. We COULD tag him... But I don't think we will.

 

We keep R Kalil... His last year. He retires a Panther. He MIGHT restructure a little...MAYBE..?? A lot of what happens with Kalil will depend on OTAs and Training Camp. He COULD negotiate an injury settlement ( a lot depends on timing..). I just don't believe we "dump" him for the same reason we won't dump TD.

 

Now generally, Norwell and Turner are the soul of our interior O-line. We have a very competent Center in Larsen and we have already re-signed Van Roten. This is why I think Kalil MIGHT end up with an injury settlement. We have an upcoming tackle who has yet to prove himself, but WILL.!! (I am convinced..). I think M Kalil will improve some more this year. He had virtually no time last year to work out issues while coming off injury. I think he continues to improve.  On defense, I think Butler is the one to watch this year. KK is "The Man" no doubt, but Butler is going to show up. I think Butler displaces Star... I think Charles Johnson is gone. HOPEFULLY, we can keep Peppers for one more year (fingers crossed..).

 

As Good mentioned, the O-line and the D-line are where everything starts. Winners have solid lines. We can't throw them away. If we do, EVERYTHING falls apart...


  • Good_Riddance likes this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users